Patrick Vieira – Arsenal have lost the balance needed to be successful
The Arsenal legend Patrick Vieira is currently in Los Angeles in his role as coach for Manchester City, but as usual he has been asked what his opinion on the state of the current Arsenal squad.
He believes that (like everyone else) Arsene Wenger’s team play ‘beautiful football’, but have lost the necessary strength to win trophies, or at least the balance between physical and technical qualities.
“Since I left Arsenal there are new players, a new generation and maybe a new philosophy because Arsenal play better football than we used to do in my time,” Vieira said.
“The passing and the movement is better and they are faster. But our team was more physical and responded better to the English game.
“Look at the goalkeeper back then, you had the personality and presence of David Seaman. In defence you had players like Adams, Bould and Keown and then myself and Emmanuel Petit in the midfield – we were a big, physical, intimidating team.
“We had physicality and we had creativity – we had everything. But I honestly believe the Arsenal team now are playing better then we were then. The difference is we put silverware on the sideboard and that is what people remember, not how you play.
“Maybe Arsenal have lost the physical aspect of the game but have gained in the technical aspect. They lack the balance between the two qualities you need.
“There is a big expectation now for teams to try to play like Barcelona but there is a balance that every side should have, especially in the English game.”
Wenger has stated often enough this summer that he knows what the team needs to restore that balance, but is he really going to address it?
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Now i can find the confidence and passion for arsenal in some player..tv5,kos,jenkinson,gervinho,szscny,walcot and that can be crucial to success in this year. …just need wenger to buy a cb,striker and replace fab… Arsenal will be invincibles agin
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Definately patrick viera has said it all.arsenal has to find the balance oof technicality and physical presence that is what the club needs to begin to win silverware.
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I don’t think he’s right. We all love trophies in the present but if you look at the history of football, the teams remembered most fondly are often the less successful ones. Holland never won the world cup, and neither did the magyars in the 50s. And Capello’s Milan was more successful than Arrigo Sacchi’s but it is the latter that is remembered more because of their entertaining style.
I like how we play and I wouldn’t want us to play ugly to win trophies. Football isn’t about trophies, it’s about playing football. For trophies you can follow any sport any team any player. But it’s the magical moments in football that capture our attention because we are ultimately football fans first.
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@Waleed…people always remember the winner….why we are playing not to show the beautiful is to win and to be called the best..so change the attitude that ‘.trophy is not important.’..its always the main target but if its didnt come this year try another. …bcoz if we will not be ambitious we never can be the great… Arsenal is great
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The problem with some fans is that they become so used to not winning trouphies that it becomes beautiful. There is no comfort in been a loser. We need trophies,or we may become football entertainers in a circus.
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@Waleed… everyone can say that we play pretty footballl but what’s the point? To be an established “pretty football” playing team we need trophies…if Barcelona played all that pretty football and never won anything nooone would ever care about them…they have the recognition for what they play but we don’t…unless we win something! I can accept the fact that we have to start playing football without x rated tackles and play football like we do but how many fans apart from Arsenal fans would second that statement?? it’s more of our way to justify the 6 years of not winning anything! It needs to change
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@waleed
I do not agree with you. Viera is correct in his claim. Cesc is world class, but that does not take out the fact he is not the most physical player in his position. As much as we want people to know we can play some of the most beautiful football in the world, we also want people to know we can be successful. And to be successful, you need to show a cabinet of trophies, not a cabinet of photos of magical moments of football. People now remember us for not winning anything for 6 years., but people will forget that Keown/ Viera is the centre of media attraction when we won the titles.
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Emeke,you are right,actually you need trophies.But Arsenal you just need to FIRE/SACK Wenger and look for another serious skillful,tactful,ideaful and competent coach to make you to be winning trophies. There are many coaches out there whom when Arsenal appoints them,they will make it to be winning trophies e.g Frank Rijkaard, Luis van Gaal,Dunga,Legend Dennis Bergkamp,e.t.c.
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Am an arsenal big fan,… We play beautiful football but at the end of every 90min the song is never dancing 2 our tone…. Imaging when we played Newcastle 4-4… When we were winning i was so in joy and coukd have Bet my LIFE that it was never gona be a draw…. We miss the 49 UNBITTING squared… Not this foolish squared
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Barcelona can mixt beautiful with ugly look at pujol and pique at the back…why can t we do it? Wenger knows we need people like samba not because he is technically. Good but he id strong…strikers play against. Us knowing they can. Edors anytime…there is not fear playing against our defense..
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Footballs business. The amount of Money we win is not much more than coming 2nd 3rd 4th. We just want enough to qualify for Europe to get more Money. He won’t pay for top class players until we start slipping out the top four or fans stop paying for season tickets. Sad but true, All the teams do it. This season we will come 4th or 5th. Then the board will start to worry, so will then start buying couple big players. Bit like Liverpools situation. I love Arsenal but its so obvious we need players and a month into the TW we bought one semi serious signing.
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@arsenalmaniac7,
but that was my point. That it’s not necessarily the winners that people remember. It is the best teams that people remember. Inter Milan won the CL a couple of years ago, who exactly talks about them?
My point was that it’s not how many trophies you win, but how much greatness you can achieve on the pitch that matters. A lot of great teams have failed at the final hurdle but they are rightly remembered as great.
It’s arguable whether this Arsenal team has achieved any sort of greatness. There have been glimpses of it but nothing sustained. But my point wasn’t specific to Arsenal, but a rather comment on what people remember.
And of course trophies are always the target. There’s no point in playing if you’re not playing to win. But there’s more to the game than just winning. A team could win 10 trophies playing kick and rush football but I wouldn’t get excited about them. I wouldn’t remember them.
The thing is, winning isn’t exclusive to football. You watch football, follow a football club, not because you love trophies, but because you love football. I want to watch players who entertain on the pitch, not just try to win at all costs.
The way some teams play, it’s like if you just use a loophole or cheats to beat a video game over and over. You’re winning, but what’s the point?
And I’m not saying we shouldn’t have ambition. I think we are showing MORE ambition than some other clubs. Winning while playing attacking football is a lot harder (but a lot more satisfying) than winning playing the “shit on a stick” brand of football.
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Paddy is being generous here, our current squad may entertain at times, but was never truly built to win anything, that should be painfully obvious. I recall the lightning quick counterattacks, the team defending, slick passin of Paddy’s era, and that team would wipe the floor with the current team. Nothing new.
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@Subin George,
But that was what I said. That even without winning great teams can be remembered. So it is not like trophies as Vieira said, but rather what you do on the pitch. For example in 2010 Inter won the CL but which team was remembered as the best? It was Barca.
Barca could fail to win anything every season and I’d still say they are a great team. Maybe with a fatal flaw but a great team nonetheless.
And I feel the same about Arsenal. We have a fatal flaw but I’d rather we played like this and lost than played like Manure and Shitty and won.
And history shows us that many people agree with that sentiment, because the best remembered teams are not the ones that won a lot but rather those that were the most entertaining or truly dominant (like today’s barcelona).
I’m not trying to justify our lack of trophies, just making a general statement. It’s hard for Arsenal (or Arsenal fans) to say that winning isn’t all important because we haven’t won anything in a while (although not that long a while if you look at it in persepctive). But it is a fact that playing football with a style and vision matters. It really does. And Arsenal wouldn’t be where we are today if it weren’t for our style of football.
Early in Wenger’s reign we weren’t THAT successful either. We won 3 titles and were crap in Europe. What got us noticed was the sublime counter attacks involving Vieira and Henry. No one would remember us if we won them playing like Graham’s team.
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One thing strikes me that none of you seem to have noticed.
Vieira backs his “physicality” comment by relating to the defensive players of the past: Seaman, Adams, Bould, Keown, Petit and himself. Petit aside, all of them stayed at the club for a long time. They had a lot of time to adjust their style to the team and to get to know their role and their partners’ way of playing. Today, we have a long-term player in Sagna, but Szczesny, Koscielny and Gibbs (if he ends up plying starting XI) are relative freshmen. Vermaelen has only had one season of Prem before he lost most of the previous season due to injury. Song is still developing, though he actually has the knack to become a powerful holding midfielder. And Wilshere is still a teenager, and though he may not be the tough-tackling, card-collecting midfielder Vieira has in mind, he is tough and he still has time to develop. I think Vieira isn’t right because what we’re having is a totally different situation. It’s true the Arsenal style has changed, and for the better, but we’re still not there yet. And Vieira relates to a situation where the squad was more or less stable, the backbone of the team was more or less the same and there were no revolutions, either actual or in the making.
I think a part of the problem for Arsenal is that they are stuck in with Fabregas, and that’s where Vieira might be right. He’s a great player of enormous skill, but it is his style that defines the Arsenal game nowadays. And when he’s injured, Arsenal turn weak. He’s no leader, he can’t rally his teammates like Vieira could. That’s why it would be better for Arsenal to just let him go. But if it can’t be done, Wenger would have to find an answer to this problem, or simply a good backup man. That’s also what makes his comments on the need to add to the offensive justified.
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@Don,
I think ultimately this period will be remembered as the time when Arsenal played some great football at times but didn’t win anything.
The things you remember are the things that evoke emotions. Fans remember the trophies, but that’s not ALL they remember. I think it’s ridiculous to say that trophies is all people remember. That win against Barcelona I will never forget. And we always remember the great goals and the great players, even if the memories of trophies aren’t there. Even if there are disappointments of failure.
And it is true that even the less successful teams in the history of football are remember very fondly for the genius they produced on the pitch.
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@Dan,
Paddy is actually right about his assessments of the squads. We DO in fact play better football now than we did during Vieira’s time. Proof? Our record in Europe.
In fact on a technical level we are only second to an incredible Barcelona team right now.
What’s missing is perhaps a bit of maturity in some players. And our inability to deal with the physicality of the Premiership at times.
And that is an important point because if you played the EPL with European rules, we’d win the title by a huge margin. But the style of football and the refereeing makes it difficult to win in England playing just good football. In many games the technical quality isn’t as important as just being able to deal with the pushing and shoving on set pieces. It’s an unfortunate fact about English football which Arsene Wenger probably thought he could ignore.
I think Barcelona too would find it difficult to win the title here. Messi, Xavi, iniesta wouldn’t be allowed the protection they get in Spain. And they would have a very tough time dealing with high balls. And then no christmas break either, which means more injuries, and they have no bench.
Point is, and this is what Vieira was trying to say, winning the EPL requires more than just technical quality. You need to be able to fight physically. So I agree with him there.
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Waleed’s argument is fully invalid. He’s is so in the minority of opinion of not only Gooner supporters but of most football fans everywhere. It’s not even funny. Greatness of a team is ONLY achieved by how many trophies that you win as it is the ultimate barometer of success.
I question you and all naysayers otherwise, what will people remember most: how many trophies Sir Alex won for Manure or that he won with a free spending transfer budget and predictable football for most of those trophies?
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@zdzis,
You make some good points. I think we have become very dependent on Cesc. Which is fine (I don’t doubt his leadership) except that he’s been injured too often. And I think that’s down to the fact that he hasn’t had a summer rest in about 3 years.
I do hope we keep him but that we give our supporting players more confidence in their ability to win without Cesc and sign a player or two who can take the pressure off him. Gervinho is a step in the right direction.
I want Cesc to stay and give us a good full season.
We talk about how Arsenal have let Cesc down but really Cesc hasn’t lived up to his potential at Arsenal. He’s a great player but he’s always missing at crucial times in the season. Last two seasons could’ve been different had he stayed fit.
But if we do let him go it wouldn’t be the worst decision. Some positive will defeinitely come out of it.
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…and this is where Wenger has lost the plot since Viera (and Dien) has left. Everyone can see it except the myopic, denying and pig-headed Manager himself.
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Arsenal-FC-Uruguay/189137241146541
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Even though I’d rather see some trophies in the Emirates cabinet, Waleed is not 100% wrong, Arsenal just need to combine that nice style and then, go ugly when necessary.
What I don’t understand on the last season is that they actually did the job til this Carling Cup Final and then all went wrong, but they did sometimes played ugly and won game and in the other ways, they have played some beautiful football wich has given us a exceptionnal january.
Once again, we need that or that but what I know, We need to keep RvP on his feet because 25 goals a season could do a hell lot for us, doesn’t matter if the opporsite team hit to in Szczesny’s net if we score 3 or 4.
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think about it fellow gooners: if wenger manages to lead the team to a trophy (the CL ! + the league let’s be crazy) he will be the best manager of all times. If he fails, he’ll remain one arsenal legend for everything he achieved and there’s quiet a lot to say. You’re critisizing nasri fabregas and other “unloyal” or uninvolved players, but you can’t appriciate that our coach is one of the most loyal and involved manager ever. He’s giving his health and life for the club and don’t tell me it’s for money, he could have won much more somewhere else, and still could. He’s an example for everyone and his influence will remain a long time even after he retires. Everything is not perfect but honestly no far away. There’s that much pressure on this project finding a successful end because people admire this project. the huge international fanbase speaks for itself.
In wenger I trust.
Longue vie au roi.
Come on arsenal!!!!!
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@Goons_with_Guns,
Vieira said that the only thing that people remember is the trophies, NOT how you play. The trophies matter, but how you play matters also.
And I may or may not be in the minority but I’ll argue that how you play matters more, and that is what people remember more.
No one will remember most of the Man Utd teams. Who talks about them anyway? The only Utd team worth talking about was the one with Ronaldo, Tevez, and Rooney up front.
But either way, I’m not saying people don’t remember trophies. I’m saying people also remember how the teams played.
There are many teams in history that weren’t as successful as others but are remembered well because of how they played.
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Waleed, our passing isn’t that good because it’s not very effective, unlike Vieira’s team, and in the cl currently the trend has been down, without significant additions I don’t think we make a cl place next season. The point I’m making is that Paddy’s team would utterly trounce the current group any day of the week.
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Parker and Samba will give us the balance – they are the best players in the world
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@waleed but this isn’t about just being remembered, its about giving the fans what they deserve for turning up every week paying alot of money for nothing long term, maybe a day out n some moderator entertaining football, not that entertaining when we had so many 0-0s and draws and at lot of times struggled to score, I just think why should I spend my money when they won’t spend there’s, now he’s gonna settle for 3rd best and sign Scott dann! He just gives up, he knows if he just invested in 40-50m worth of signing (which he CAN) afford then we would win something, but no wait he doesn’t know that. His day has come and gone.
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What in all mighty zeus name is Waleed talking about. yeha you are remebered as a good footballign team and nothing more. jesus christ see this is what kind of AKB fans are bloody brainwahsed into beleiveg, that winning is not important, but playingoccasianlly good football is. Bloody jokes, yeha you maybe remebered as playing a few good games, and nothng more. Your are not a greta team. Yeah the ebst footballing team may not always be rembered as the ebst team that won the trophy, but trophies is what matters, nobody can take that fyou. jesus christ what does playing a few good footballing games, and not winnign anything mean? Man utd might not have played the ebst football last yera, but they won the bloody trophies do u understand that? Or is it to hard to understand? You know what so called great footballing are rembered as, they played good but they never won anything yes thats what they are rembered for. Trophies create history for clubs, and that can never be taken away. Intermilan won the champions league with grit and determination, so they might not be mentioned in the same breath as Braceloan at present, so who cares, they won the bloody trophy.
So i take it yod rather be rembered as playing occoasionally good football, but always failing when it mattered? or would you like to be rembered playibeautifal football, but fialing to ver shoot? Or do you want to be rembered as the preinial under achievers. You keep bringing up Holland, they are always talked of as the under achievers, that always fallter to decieve. Its trophys, glory and history.
Bloody fans have been brainwashed into believing this so called beautiful football we play is somehow greta. We do not play greta football, we play the most frustrating football ever, we pass,pass,pass,pass sideayas,pass sideays and take no shot. thats what we play. yes we play occasionally gofootball and nothing more. This current team will never be remebred as greta or magical, yes they will be rembered as playing good football, and then what? oh yeah they will be rembered as playing good football and always falling when it came to actually winning the games that mattered.
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This beautiful football argument is a joke. Does anyone remember the days of George Graham? We weren’t playing ‘beautiful’ but I do remember the way I used to be hanging of my seat as the suspense of can Arsenal hold the 1-0 lead completely consumed me.
I was more entertained under GG than this current side. This current sides answer to everything is to just pass the ball around the opposition half and that’s it. The team is not technically great. Technically great teams press hard. AW’s team hardly press at all.
Fans are deluding themselves if they think this team can even emulate the beautiful football of the great teams in history.
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What Patrick said is right! We can still play beautiful football and still win some trophies! Bercelona is a typical example of that. Arsenal FC need a balance as urgent as possible.,
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Exactly, who cares if you play football. Jesus everyone in football agreses, yeha you play goo football and so what. You think Stoke care we play good football, or bolton or any other team? You know what we are called Waleed yes thats it perinial under achievers, playing a few good games, and nothign else. Who cares if the best footballign side didnt win a triophy that season, nobody, in 100 years the list will still say the team that won is was sond so. barcelona didnt win it that year because they got bossed by a far superiro Inter milan team as was shown in both legs. they played th best football, and still didnt win the champions league that year. In 100 years nobody will rember whether Barceloan played well or not, all that is remberis the name on the trophy. As is said by countless, ex players, pundits,journalists,fans.
The only ones that even come up with this argument is the AKB.
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Greatness is measured by the number of truophies u win. Take Take Tiger woods, Federa, Nadal for example,who are they without trouphies ? Do we really play beautiful football? Beautiful football was clearly defined when we played against Bacelona. Our beautiful football has no purpose when we play against teams that have a sense of purpose. Wenger should stick to hard football that made us what we are today.
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These AKB’s need to leave the club along with AW. AW was UNKNOWN when he came to Arsenal so to say that he is irreplacable is the joke of the century!
And now Maarten Stekelenburg is available on the market for a pretty decent price and I can’t believe AW has not jumped in and made an offer despite all the goalkeeping mistakes and errors, which has cost us points for years!!!
Nothing will ever change!!
IN WENGER AND AKB’S WE RUST!!!
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@ Waleed,
Don’t sound like a sore loser…listen mate, you have been trying to defend your point. While you have every right to make yr point, pls have the balls to accept other point of views as well.
In short, some fans feel that along-with beautiful football, winning trophies also matter. And moreover I don’t find any correlation between the two. For example, Barcelona plays amazing football & they win trophies. Period. Arsenal plays passing football, if that is what is beautiful to you, you are nuts….
Defending high balls, scoring from long range, free-kicks, set-pieces are all part of this game- and where we are horrible for the past few years & everyone including you ( except our retarded manger ) knows our short-comings…
So stop this humming about lovely football…we only know how to pass-pass-pass & we can only beat teams like Wigans of the world with such efforts…
By the way, you said you felt proud of the football & win against Barcelona…i guess you are a contradictory person by nature…yes we won that day ( I would take that anytime any moment ) , but we played horrid football ( which is what you don’t like )
Grow up – smell the bean … it’s brewing … grab it before someone else takes it
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@Waleed, you are super smart, keep teachin ‘em how to argue.
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@Asif:”y the way, you said you felt proud of the football & win against Barcelona…i guess you are a contradictory person by nature…yes we won that day ( I would take that anytime any moment ) , but we played horrid football ( which is what you don’t like )”
If we are talking about the 1st leg of CL I have no ideas what in the world you are talking about! 2nd half of 1st leg – horrid football?
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@ Sid
who cares!? that tie is decided over 2 legs and we lost TWO YEARS in a row. not only that a top club like ARSENAL didn’t even have a single shot at goal minus RVP’s shot which sadly doesn’t even count (in the 2nd leg). AW, a manager of “top calibre” according to the AKB’s, should have been fired just for that in my opinion. An embarassing new CL record for the club!!
if the season’s high points is gauged by whether we beat man utd, chelsea, barca etc then the whole club is a fiasko just like AW!
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Barca play a more beautiful football than Arsenal and they win trophies. So what is this: Arsenal do not need trophies? Better take yourself out of Wenger mentality and face the reality.
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hanenyo anyone plays better when you have bribed all the referees and fixed matches, i also remember juventus, now is the catalonians..but whatever.
I think we should first get rid of squilaci and bring a Cb such as cahill/mertesacker/samba/subotic.
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Ultimately, Trophies equal to success. We need to taste success. It’s this period of unsuccessfulness that has lowered our expectation. We want to be remember as champions, as winners, not the decade’s best underachiever.
Against Newcastle, so what if we passed and moved well. No one remembers that, instead the only that comes to mind will be how wenthrow a win away.
Man Utd do not play well as they could last season, but yet they will be remember as league winners.
Leeds Utd used to play great football in the young Alan Smith, Kewell, Robbie Keane era. Look where they are. Did anyone talk about them now?
If Chelsea manage to win the league last season, do you think people will be saying Torres is not scoring enough?
We need to invest to quality players. We cannot afford to field boys anymore.
You built your young team around your winning team, not a young team to be a winning team.
We seriously are not spending enough.
Look at Both Manchester, Liverpool and Chelsea. How much money have they spent from last season to date. If Arsenal board is still so stingy not to spend, we can kiss our CL goodbye
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@waleed I just want you to know that I am in the same boat. Really appreaciate your perspective. I become arsenal fans because of their philosphy of play and club development. If this crazy football dirty bussiness and childish fans who only care about candy wll force arsenal to become mediocare club I will still be the gunners as long as their keep their principle.
Off course we want to win, but we have to win with our style and belief. We will support arsenal in their struggle to face this crazy situation because we have the common belief.
Arsenal is the stronghold of the true football spirit. I hope Arsenal will always try to improve our quality to face all the dirty bussiness trick and win the game with the most dirty player and most unsupportive referee with our game and fair play. Because we love football, and understand that the current practice will only destroy football that we love.
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People are completely missing the point of what I’m saying.
I’m not talking about this current Arsenal side. It is up for debate how good or bad or how entertaining they are. I find us quite an entertaining team but not always. And we are not a great team by any means at the moment so it is certainly up for debate how we will be remembered, if we are remembered at all.
And I’m not saying trophies aren’t important. I’ve already said that winning games has to be the objective behind how you play, without its meaningless. And obviously people remember the successful teams.
I’m not saying at all that successful teams aren’t remembered or that trophies aren’t important.
What I was saying, and this was a general point about ALL TEAMS throughout the history of football, that teams ARE remembered for their style of play, not just for their trophies. And there have been many teams that weren’t as successful as others but are remembered just as or more fondly because of how they play.
Therefore Vieira is wrong when he says that ALL people remember is the trophies and NOTHING else.
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@Emeke,
Let’s ASSUME for argument’s sake that we play the most beautiful football on the planet. Let’s say, hypothetically, we produce some great team goals and great entertaining matches for our fans and football fans in general. But for some fatal flaw we fail to win a lot of trophies. Maybe we didn’t have a decent keeper or a decent left back or maybe we just didn’t have the bench to cope with the load of games, whatever.
Would you still say that our fans and everyone who loved watching us would just forget everything they saw?
Arsenal are loved and respected all over the world, not just by fans but by coaches, for the way we play our football. So I don’t think anyone can argue that trophies is all that matters.
We are not where we are because of trophies. If you step back and look at the Invncibles team and the 98 double winning team, they weren’t that great of a team and they weren’t that successful either. 3 titles and 4 FA Cups and a mediocre showing in Europe is not the stuff of legends. Man Utd won more during that period.
But what really put us on the map and attracted huge crowds was the way we played.
Watching the genius of gifted players is a pleasure in itself. You can’t argue with that.
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no comment
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@Waleed
I agree with u man..Although MoanU did win the premiere league but they hardly entertained even their own fans with their football..they have no identity of their own…they even got thrashed by Barca in the CL final despite being premiere league champs
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People remember winners, not nearly winners,so I agree with big pat!! @ waleed I disagree with you my friend.
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Apres but people remember team which win and play good football at the same time…who will remember. How beautiful arsenal team which went to the final of the champion league a part from arsenal fan…
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@WALEED AND EVERY OTHER PERSON STOP FOOLING YOURSELF. PERFORM LIKE WENGER JUST FOR A FEW MONTHS IN YOUR JOBS AND I GUARANTEE YOU WILL BE SACKED. ALEX FERGUSON AND MAN U WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR BEING SUCCESSFUL NOT ARSENAL AND WENGER.
WHAT KIND OF A MANAGER GETS RID OF ANY PLAYER OVER 30 WHEN REALLY THAT’S WHEN MATURITY KICKS IN. WENGER IS THE PROBLEM HERE.
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If anyone still thinks a team will be remembered for their playing style instead of the silverware he’s a total idiot. All of our time, ears and eyes on every site that may have a transfer rumor about Arsenal is not because we want to see the same passing football we’ve been seeing for the past six years without a trophy but rather because we really do miss the silverware and that what the team will be remembered for. SILVERWARE. All the nice passing and dribbling means nothing if they are not wrapped with the trophy in the end.
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