Should Van Persie be played in the “Bergkamp role”
Is there a better way to use Robin Van Persie? by Richard Hall
Defensively Arsenal are improving, it may be a slow process, but with the emergence of Wojciech Szczęsny as one of the most talented young keepers in Europe and a back four that are starting to understand each other, the signs are there. At the same time offensively they seem to be faltering, which is an unusual characteristic for team under Wenger. The answer though may lie with one man.
Robin Van Persie has arguably been Arsenal’s best player so far this year as he seems to continually carry the burden of dragging Arsenal to the finish line, no more so than in the recent victory over Sunderland. Ironically it is the way in which Arsene Wenger is using his front man that could be the reason his team is faltering more so than in previous years. The reason behind this is down to the formation, the use of Van Persie and the absence of Fabregas.
The 4-3-3 formation (or 4-3-2-1 if you prefer) that Wenger has been using is based on the Barcelona mould and relies on two main aspects. Firstly the man leading the attack has to be a clinical finisher with either foot or his head. If you look at David Villa at Barcelona or Zlatan Ibrahimovic at Milan they embody this type of player, they know where the goal is instinctively and make full use of the fantastic service from their wide man or the effective through balls from the key midfielder.
Secondly the key midfielder such as Xavi, Andres Iniesta and now of course Fabregas at Barcelona can find that pass that very few in the game can. All Arsenal fans know of Fabregas’s ability to produce goals out of nothing and supply whoever was up front with the simplest of finishes. Milan this year for instance have noticed that the absence of Andrea Pirlo and his ability to feed the front man and have had to adapt to using a diamond formation with two up front to counter this.
Arsenal adapted this 4-3-3 formation primarily to suit Fabregas and his ability and to a large extent it worked. With his departure to the masters of this system Arsenal are left with a very different midfield and although Jack Wilshere and Mikel Arteta are superb footballers, neither possess that natural ability in the same abundance that Fabregas had to fill this role.
The next part of this conundrum is with Robin Van Persie. He is, as previously stated, Arsenal’s man of the moment but with this formation he is having to carry the team somewhat. Should Wenger revert to a 4-4-1-1 and play the Dutchman behind a striker then this would allow him more of a free role and he would be able to get the main striker and the wingers into play much more.
What would actually happen is that the role that Fabregas previously dominated play in would be replaced higher up the pitch by Van Persie. A main striker (whether this would be Marouane Chamakh or not is up for debate) would be allowed to concentrate solely on scoring goals whilst the Dutchman now playing in his ‘Bergkamp’ role would be also allowed to add his own tally with less pressure, this would hopefully have the effect of increasing his creativity.
This is something that has been acknowledged by Bergkamp himself in a recent interview with Martin Keown in the Daily Mail. He said: “When I look at Robin van Persie, he is the front player, but he is better in my old role. They are missing an out-and-out goalscorer. Now they play with an extra midfielder instead.”
The change of formation is something that should have been dictated to Wenger by the sale of Fabregas and to some extent Samir Nasri (although the jury is still out as to whether he could have filled in effectively long term for the Spaniard). Arsenal maybe improving slowly defensively but they have to consider the fact that their attacking potency has been lost somewhat.
It’s a brave new world for Arsenal fans and a change of tactics would be as welcome as a new player at the Emirates. Times change and a new era is around the corner, to what extent Wenger embraces this however, is still out for debate.
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We don’t have enough natural wingers to play in a 4-4-1-1. Also, we would have too many central midfielders no playing. There is wilshere, ramsey, arteta, song, frimpong, rosicky, yossi, and diaby. You can’t expect arsenal to switch to playing with only 2 central midfielders because nobody would get to play. Trust Arsene Wenger in his decisions. The team is starting to come around and we will be challenging for a top 4 spot in the next 3 weeks.
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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wenger changed the tactic to suit fabregas before, he should switch the tactic again to fit the current squad.. maybe he doesn’t want to change the tactic abruptly in the middle of the season.. only wenger knows..
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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You have a point. Wouldn’t mind testing this theory out but we’ll need to buy another fantastic striker up front since Chamakh is going to the African Cup. Let the Tevez talks BEGIN!
Opinions divided. What do you think?
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Wenger said, “Ramsey is turning into a real goalscorer now…”.
My suggestions:
1. Play Ramsey upfront. Wenger can test this in the Carling cup
2. Forget Hazard & M’villa and get a real AM like Gotze.
3. Play Walcott upfront or sell him to Juventus
4. Let Park prove himself even if for 15 mins
5. Let Arshavin go. This is sad but it will benefit everyone
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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Nice debate but considering van persies form,do we really need to alter his position. If arsenal is to beat chelsea,they should develop more variety in their attack instead of this predictable one dimensional passing game.how about some goals from crosses,shots from distance(chamberlain) and so on….
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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As Bergkamp says…we need an out-and out striker for VP to play anywhere else…five midfielders is CONDUCIVE for the moment…It makes the midfield somewhat unpredictable
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–Szczesny–
-Sagna-Vermaelen-Koscielny-Santos-
–Song-Arteta–
–Hazard–Wilshere–Gervinho–
-van Persie-
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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first of all
if it aint broke why fix it ?
he have no problem with v perise in his current position
his hitting goals week in week out.
i think arsenal have been playing this 4-3-3 for a few years now, if they was going to change and play v perise in the bergkamp role it would take up a step back
we would then have to test him there test playing in diffrent positions.
we are just starting to play well after the lose of fagrigas and nasri.
but i would like wenger to test the 4-1-3-2 a few times
v perise and walcott upfront could be a good partner ship
i them to always play well walcott gets alot of assint for v perise.
v perise beheind walcott is what wenger should try
walcott is not a winger and its only a matter of time before he will start being used just as a stiker.
Opinions divided. What do you think?
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He plays in that role for the national team and their stats tell the story.
The only problem would be who to play up front.
I think walcott would be able to play striker but it would take him time to adapt because AW has been playing him out of position for so long.
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with the emergence of the new form of vrp, its been observed and experimented in his national team. He plays as a out and out striker but huntelaar stands as the lone striker and rvp has scored more goals with this formation. It will be a welcome idea if wenger can accept idea. I expect wenger to experiment park in d next game and concentrate more in the midfield and the attack. 4 4 1 1 or 4 1 3 2 formation will suite arsenal’s attacking spirit. I so respect wenger’s idea concerning arsenal formation. In Arsene Wenger, I trust. Arsenal for Life
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I’ve wanted theo to play upfront with rvp behind for 2 years but now i think it won’t ever happen 1 wengers won’t try it & 2 i’m not sure walcotts good enough i’d love him to though (wenger) to try during a match when we are strugging to break a stubburn bolton , blackburn , stoke etc or even give park a chance & take off a midfielder.
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Walcot as front man may be good just for his speed especially with thro balls but he seems to lack composure infront of goals. VP for free will be fantastic.
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T.M and reddb10 said it best, we would need someone in front of rvp in order to move him to the bergkamp and we don’t have that person right now. Maybe park is, and he has shown on int duty he can finish with the best of them. I’m for changing to the 4-4-1-1 but mid season would be difficult. I’d love to see rvp fluctuate between the lamp role and second striker to give jack or aaron room to create in the midfield. I the switch was made in formation I’d like to see anger bring in a true striker huntelaar/tevez/p. Cisse/Luis adriano
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Diaby is the most frustrating arsenal player ever! He has so much talent but can’t do the basics right, for eg…. He holds on to the ball way too long and can’t hold his Temper ( Newcastle) but I’m looking forward to him coming back, on his day he can boss a match. He is not a defensive player he is a box to box player who scores his fair share of goals. I’d have him over Ramsey at the moment and arteta to, not that I don’t rate these two, it’s just on his day diaby is that much better. Who agrees?
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Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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Still no Park yet even though he has been scoring goals for S.Korea? Strange manager indeed.
Top Gooner!. Agree or not?:
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Well, the formation will still change when Jack Wilshere returns, probably then, it will be Mikel Arteta that will support V.P up front, while Wilshere and Song can be controling the central midfield, and our two wingers can also do their thing.
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AW has not lost his book like coach klein(the water boy, for those who dont know). lets not forget this man put a teams out that made history in the prem, and when it comes to bringing in players for next to nothing which we end up loving and sing songs about!!!!!! we are not always running the show like barca but we can be as good on our day. everyone loves to slate us, but we spend small and play big. its not happening at the mo but we have lost very very big players. we have not spent that money yet but we are starting to look better.if your arsenal stop giving your views on AW being this or that and start backing your team. this man has got a CV that most teams would love to have. have faith as this man has taken our club in the right direction. look at whats happening in football. we are doing ok. have faith.
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RvP is the only player who can actually score atm. The rest of the team couldn’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. Arteta is probably the only other player who is as accurate enough. People are talking about Ramsey playing striker…well he can shoot, but is he quick enough to get himself into the right positions to pull shot from nowhere? From what I have seen of him, he is too sluggish. So no to that…I would rather play Park and give him a chance. We rather need a striker who is hungry for the ball, makes space and fights for everything. Rvp is good but he lacks that tenacity strikers like Rooney, Tevez, Drogba have. I just wish we could get some decent wingers who could cross a ball and provide our strikers with more variety of assists. Sorry but Walcott cannot cross to save his life and is way too inconsistent. Arshavin is too small and just gets pummeled by bigger defenders. Also too inconsistent. Play Ox on the right, Miyachi on left. RvP up front with Park supporting him. At least in that position, Park is able to run at them which he does better than RvP. RvP isn’tthe greatest at dribbling, he is good in semi deal ball situations, that is why having him nearest the goals is better.
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van persie is an in and out goal scorer though. like wenger, said hes scored so many goals as a lone striker, why change it? we should use: 4-1-2-2-1:
Szczesny
Sagna Vermaelen Mertesacker Santos
Song
Wilshere Arteta
Hazard Gervinho
Van Persie
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I tink we shud get a striker like pato or tevez, 2 partner v.p. Vp shud be as free as any tin gud
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I tink we shud get a striker like pato or tevez, 2 partner v.p. Vp shud be as free as any tin gud, 4-3-1-1 formatn is gud
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all we need is a 1 worldclass attacking midfielder like Hazard and co. vanpersie is good aat lone striker. y wud u change?
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I believe this is a debate that has been on for quite a while now.I am worried that we are no longer creating clear cut chances. The spark in the Midfield is not quite there. I would suggest a 4.4.1.1 approach.
————–——-Snezzy——-
Djourou, Metsecker, Konsienly, Santos
———Song/Conqelin/Fringpong——–
—-Arteta/Gervinho/Ramsey/Rosicky—-
———-AOC/Miyachi/Benyaun——–
————RVP/Arshavin—————-
———Chamakh/Park/Walcott
Gervinho seems to be in the thick of good things and can get a midfield that creates chances. This role is shared out with Ramsey, Arteta and Rosicky, One of either AOC/Miyachi and Benyaun to play as the Winger covering all the wings and pops up in either wing to provide crosses and support counter attacks by Djourou or Santos. RVP is in the ‘Bergkamp’ slot behind the front man. The role is shared out with Arshavin for two reasons – Should the unfortunate scenario of injury arise, Arshavin will be there to help and 2, to give RVP some rest whenever possible so that we do not end up over working him. Chamakh/ Walcott and Park share out the front man roles.
My first eleven in this formation for Saturday would be Snezzy, Djourou, Metsacker, Konsienly, Santos, Song, Arteta, Gervinho, Benyauan, RVP and Walcott. Such a set up will allow rest for players like Arteta, and Song and allow the new emerging talents some play time. I would bring in Ramsey for Arteta or Gervinho, AOC for Benayuan and Park for Walcott
In January with Lille and Borussia Dortmund performing dismally in the champions league we can get Eden Hazard (Even though he will be cup tied and will not feature but we can argue that he will be used to push the domestic league top 4 position) and release Chamakh and Rosicky.
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WENGS IS arrogant so no change, but i want to try new form./ i was gonna blast the team yesterday, but ramsey goal softened it. Why?
‘cos i could not believe the amount of time we was getting into offisde positions and no one was making runs or doing give and go.
Team seemed pretty lazy so we know its not working.
and rosicky should play more.
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Dennis Bergkemp seems to think RVP would be better served behind the main striker, so I guess we should ask RVP`s opinion.
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may God rescue us from this our condition. a meen. Up guners 4 life.
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i dont understand some people
if v perise was not getting goals or was being quit in games then i would understand the dabat.
but his getting goals week in week out
why on earth people would wanna stop that and bring him down the field i will never understand.
we have a great squad at the momment good back up for injourd players something that has let us down in the past.
i personly just think we need an crative midfiled and a stiker if chamak is sold.
with us still having cash left
wenger should just spend big to bring one crative midfiled
we just missing someone to creat chances.
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Very gud Idea!4-4-1-1 OR straight 4-4-2 wth RVP playn slightly on de Lt directly behind a striker.If de 4-4-1-1 is adopted on de other hand then de man upfront shld be any of these 5,RVP,Ox,Park, Walcott, Rambo.Who will be picked for de role in any game is entirely Wenger’s decision bt ofcourse he can be substituted by any of de other remaining 4!Now Bergkamp’s position(ie directly behind de Striker) shld then DEFINITELY be played by Gervinho OR RVP! &here’s where I blv v.persie himself shld be askd b4 each game where he’ll like! Afterall he,of all players shld know where he rightfully belongs![GFL]
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YES !!!!!!!!!
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Szcz Sagna kosc Verm Gibbs Gotze Wilshere Song Hazard VanPersie Walcott
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4-4-2
for the 1st eleven
syzenny
sagna,mertesacker,konscielny,santos
walcott,song,wilshere,miyaichi
rvp,gervinho
for the subs
alex for walcott
park for gervinho
miyaichi for rosicky
wlishere will play for miyaichi’s place
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I personnally think AW sometime lacks that confidence to try new ideas. Im not a supporter of Man U but I think thats where Sir Alex has the edge. Most teams will play a formation that accomodates their players, we seem to force them to play the way AW wants. We’ve bought Ryo,Chamberlain genuine wingers but we are using Gervighno and Walcott. When will these players be accommodated when someone gets injured? Then they will be pressured to perform.We bought Park again not accomodated, Chamack how do we expect players to perform after warming the bench for so long!! Time to move with the times!
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