I wasn’t going to write this article because every year I repeat myself. by Dan Smith
Whenever they get to a domestic Cup Final or the country celebrates an event regarding the Monarchy, we discuss a section of Liverpool fans booing the National Anthem.
I thought we have a responsibility to help educate the next generation. I don’t want youngsters growing up thinking jeering your own national anthem is normal behaviour.
I looked into the crowd at Anfield on Saturday and guessed the ages of some making rude gesture and holding up signs to oppose Coronation Day. I wondered if some were truly old enough to understand some of the grievances the City holds towards authority in the UK?
How many could construct a debate about what King Charles or Prince William have to do with your misgivings?
This of course is the only part of Britain to ever have anything bad happen to them. The only area to disagree with their government. The only location to be impacted by policies and legislation.
If you want to be literal, of course freedom of speech gives you the right to boo ‘God Save The King ‘.
By that logic is it okay to disrespect a minute’s silence for the Hillsborough disaster?
Once a year the city (rightfully) asks the country to pay respect for something important to them.
I remember Chelsea fans being condemned for that, booing a minutes silence, and Chelsea and Liverpool releasing statements admonishing those responsible.
Lawfully, do Chelsea fans have to stay quiet because Liverpool asks them to?
Of course not.
The majority do though, because it’s called respect and class.
John W Henry is a proud American, one of the most patriotic countries in the world.
Ask him if he would appreciate the Boston Red Sox getting to a final and their big day being overshadowed by fans drowning out ‘ The Star-Spangled Banner’?
The FA preach whenever England’s national anthem is booed abroad and warn their own fans for doing likewise.
At the last Euros, Gareth Southgate had to warn home fans not to disrespect the anthems of Denmark and Italy.
Was that an attack on free speech or a manager just requesting decorum?
Just say that out loud. It’s disrespectful for another country’s fans to come to Wembley and boo our national anthem, but it’s okay for an Englishman or women to do it?
Because whisper it quietly…. Liverpool is part of this country.
You can call yourself Scouse but you are still English.
It might not be something you like, but that doesn’t change the facts.
We live in a society where we think we can argue anything, yet some things are just factual.
A generation who can share an opinion round the world within seconds and can’t be told they are wrong no matter how nonfactual.
You are born a male or female, the grass is green, the sky is blue, and Liverpool is part of England.
You’re not unique or special, you are part of Britain.
That’s why legends like Kenny Daglish and Ian Rush (who know a lot about the club and city) were happy to be knighted.
Why haven’t the city protested about representing Britain by hosting the Eurovision contest next weekend?
An event which will add a lot to the economy for a few days.
Or do we pick and choose?
Anyone from Liverpool who doesn’t want to associate themselves with England and wants to be a separate identity …. why not campaign to leave the Premiership?
Boycott representing England in Europe instead of boasting about how many trophies you have won.
Football is England’s national sport and Liverpool’s brand has made a lot of money by being associated with that.
So, in other words, you want to play in an English League, get paid millions to be broadcast on English TV, represent England in Europe and ask the rest of England to support causes that mean something to you.
Yet for two minutes, when you’re not centre of attention and the focus is on someone else, you have to be heard?
You couldn’t just not sing?
Couldn’t just sit down for a couple of mins?
In 2005, Anfield held a min’s silence to remember the victims of Heysel, as it was the first time Liverpool had faced Juventus since that fatal night in 1985.
Liverpool fans didn’t like that some Juve fans simply turned their backs.
No vile chants, no derogatory signs …. a respectful silence.
Hillsborough, how it was handled then and since, and various other politics, of course invite discussions.
Yet those voices are being lost, drowned out by morons.
Because when I hear a national anthem being booed and see a spotty teenager hold up a sign, I don’t sympathise with the city or question those in power.
I think what a bunch of Muppets.
Who of course have free speech, but I have free speech to oppose their free speech.
I simply have an education.
I’m not a Royalist, I didn’t watch the Coronation.
If I’m not interested in something, I do something else.
I don’t feel the need to oppose something that someone else might enjoy.
What do I gain from that?
But them I’m educated.
I have listened to families of the 97.
You know what stands out to me?
How they speak with class, carry themselves with dignity, rise above hate, speak so eloquently.
Those who booed at Anfield didn’t hurt King Charles, you let yourselves down.
Dan
It seems the pop up video is gone now. Thank you Pat for acting on readers feedback.
Back to the article, the world is full of double standards and agendas from every corner small scale and large scale nowadays. No one can escape it unfortunately.
And it’s just the beginning. What follows in the years to come is very scary if one reflect on it.
Dan, isn’t it about time you left off slagging the Liverpool fans? You got it completely wrong last time (which you’ve never been man enough to admit), so you’re definitely the wrong person to take issue with this.
Are you saying I got this wrong ?
They didn’t boo the national anthem ?
I’m saying that you’re the wrong person to be slagging them considering your history with Liverpool supporters on JA.
If Sam or Shenel or Dan Smith or anyone else wrote this article I might even offer my support, but not for you.
And it’s about time you manned up and appologised for the shameful accusations you made against Liverpool fans following the Champions League final last year.
But your deflecting
Your saying because of another debate I can’t comment on this
What does Paris have to do with booing national anthem ?
Daniel Smith. I don’t know what you mean by saying that you “can’t comment”. It’s not you that I’m complaining to, but the other Dan (unless you’re one and the same person), who wrote this article. I was suggesting, as an example, that if it had been you or Shenel or Sam that had written it and not him, I might have shown some support as I also have no love for Liverpool fans.
I know the two events are completely unrelated but he wrote an absolutely disgraceful pack of lies about the previous event and he’s never even acknowledged this despite being proven well & truly wrong by the inquiry results. Which is what I pointed out to him.
I guess it’s all to do with his “hard man of Just Arsenal” image, so there’s no helping him really.
Dan Smith, I’ve just noticed that although you’ve signed your article off as Dan, it is infact writen by yourdelf “Dan Smith”. which made my whole issue with it irrelevant, incorrect and completely BS. Very sorry for accusing you of all the wrongs I’ve attributed to the actual Dan😂. And yes, I do support it.
Well I’ve completely lost the plot now
How many Dan Smith’s are there?
God knows Sue. Perhaps Dan Smith is Dan in disguise or he’s Dan Smith from our past who shattered Diaby’s ankle all those years ago, and is back to mess with us.😱
Not sure, but it seems to me that there is a Dan Smith and a Daniel Smith. It’s anybody’s guess , because they both seem to have the same personality !
‘ hard man of JustArsenal ‘ ?
What does that even me lol
I believe it was a protest against social and economic inequality symbolized by the coronation? I think the target wasn’t the national anthem, but the royal family
For God’s sake, the national anthem says God Save the King. You can not as some convenience ignore the link between the country’s anthem and the monarchy. It seems to me that Gotanidea also forgets that decisions on social and economic equality are not the King’s. It is not that sort of autocracy.
Maybe the royal family don’t make decision on equality, but they have surely been enjoying their privileges, lifestyle and wealth because of their status and the inequality? I think that’s what those scousers have been trying to change
Nonetheless, I never liked any political message in football stadium or the ones made by football players/ managers, using their popularities in sports. There are more appropriate places for politics
I’ve grown up with our national anthem and I have no animosity towards the King and working royals, though certainly not the hangers on, rather wish that we sang allegiance to our country rather than the King or Queen. Land of hope and glory is rousing but that may have some awkward connotations from our past
That said, until that changes, the National anthem is what it is and it’s a slap in the face to the rest of us that OUR anthem is booed by a small minority. Of course, it is their right, but it does rile and disappoint me
Dan, many good points there. I agree with most of it. I dare not say what I think because in the current climate I’d be labelled all sorts. I do admire that you never hide away from telling it exactly as you see it, but don’t you get fed up with people shooting you down?
I had to think long and hard about the message I posted yesterday re: Wilf Zaha, for fear of being accused and possibly abused. The other day someone on this site called me a M-R-N because
I mildly criticized Zinchenko.
Previously another character on this site said I was disrespectful to both him and wait for it …..Pep Guardiola for me being anti-Pep !!! Trust me I was relatively mild and tongue in cheek with my appraisal ,but the bloke seemed to get quite worked up about it. So hats off to you for being brave.
I hate the scouse bin dippers fans so much always act like there the victims total discrace what they did prey they don’t make top 4!
“self-pity city” I call ’em.
The only thing I object to this article of Dan’s is him calling Liverpudlians Muppets. What an insult to my childhood heroes,,,, Kermit The Frog, Miss Piggy, Beaker, Animal and the two old judges. Shame on you Daniel Smith shame🤣🤣🤣
ha ha ha very good, pj.
Great article.
Despicable fans.
Wallowing in self pity.
Always the victims
I politely disagree.
Monarchist or not, the excesses that were reported by The Guardian and other publications (not mentioned in the article, strangely) in the weeks leading up to the coronation are very protestable. Monarchies as a system of government are a ridiculous concept in the 21st century and it seems hard to argue that our, the taxpayer’s, financial support of their existence is equally ridiculous.
As one representative of our country, I don’t feel let down. Boo away, I say.
PS. Labelling your opponents uneducated is a somwhat uneducated argument, if I may say. Counter with facts, not insults.
From the many articles I have read, the Monarchy brings in a ridiculously greater sum of cash flow into the economy than what is actually used to maintain the Monarchy.
So by removing the Monarchy, financially the economy is worse off.
So are you prepared to cost the economy money out of sheer spite?
This is exciting. Guys you need to be on Question Time this very week. Call up the Beeb immediately.
It is your opinion of course, and if you are a republican then that is your choice also.
Whenever I think about the subject, I’m in two minds. It has been a part of our heritage for hundreds of years or is it an out of date system as you suggest? Currently, the monarchy still maintains a healthy level of support. The financial assistance it receives I’m sure is more than outweighed by the unseen revenue it brings in.
I don’t buy into bowing and scraping but I do believe they perform a more useful service than some think. Of course the king or queen, poor sod, is lumbered until he or she pops off, and an elected president serves a specific term. I quite like our system where there a many checks and balances in parliament and figurehead in Buckingham Palace
Dan, I so agree with Jax’s comments at 8.30am regarding your refusal to apologise for the article that you wrote regarding the CL final.
It is hypocrisy to tell others what is right or wrong, when you cannot apologise for something that you got so disastrously wrong yourself.
On to the booing of the national anthem :
Im sure we all know the words, at least to the first verse anyway.
Nowhere in there does it mention our country – rather the opposite, as it glorifies a family and it’s matriarch of any given time.
Within that family, over the past, history shows utter contempt for the people it has ruled over and it did it again last weekend.
Despite being one of the richest families in the world and one of the biggest landowners in our country, it was more than happy to let us, the British taxpayer, foot the bill for the coronation of a man who entered the world and will leave it in exactly the same way as every other person on this earth.
Just as it is the right of anyone who wants to camp out overnight to applaud this person, so it is the right of others to show their contempt of him.
The national anthem is not a hymn that recognises the United Kingdom, but one that glorifies a family.
“I vow to thee my country” or “Jerusalem”, both which mention our country would be so much more appropriate.
By the way, I do believe that, one day, the real truth about Princess Diana’s death will come to light.
As a footnote, liverpool fans are their own worst enemy, when they dishonour other tragic footballing events and I have no time for that kind of hypocrisy either.
Jerusalem all day long, like your post, I am not a royalist, but neither am I a fan of a republic, it brought a lot of money into the hospitality section, street parties are a good thing, I remember the 1977 Jubliee and my favourite Sex Pistols song. Disrupting the coronation is a bit naff, protest all you want, but don’t ruin people’s day out. If you brought in a vote to get rid of or keep the monarchy, I think the remain would win by a landslide. The narcissist mobs the oil and not my King is an attention-seeking white middle class who didn’t get much attention from mummy and daddy. Anyway enough politics, we have Brighton next and I fancy Everton to get a result in the earlier kick-off, that would be nice, then Chelsea to upset the oil rags. Liverpool fans complain when the attention is elsewhere and I remember Heysel very well, not a shred of sympathy from the fans who killed those Juve fans, made me ashamed to be a football fan and English that day. Their actions cost English football dearly, we had won I believe seven out of eight European Cup finals, English was dominating and the Liverpool fans threw it all away
My God, you are brave, I’ve always had that same opinion about Heysel but didn’t think it would be a good idea to voice it. Most in this country seem to forget about the Italians who died there. But you’re right let’s leave it before we get into trouble.
It was one of the most appalling tragedies I’ve ever seen on tv. Was it Motty who was trying to deal with the unfolding horrors?
Can’t remember who the commentator was but I recall Alan Hansen saying they knew something bad had happened prior to kick-off and they just didn’t have the heart or motivation to play the game as they would have done otherwise. That was his reason for their comparatively poor performance. Understandable. The game should not have been played.
Well done ken for separating the two though mate
My opinions on Paris Final are separate to my opinion of them booing national anthem
Ken. I’ve just noticed that this article is in fact written by Dan Smith, (his name is at the top of it which I missed) although signed off as Dan, which makes nonsense of my comments. My booby, for which I’ve apologized for. Too many Dans.
Jax, I also get confused by DAN SMITH sometimes calling himself simply DAN, with no surname, and at other times as Daniel Smith.
I far prefer that he sticks to one constant name , whichever he chooses, but only ONE of them.
Yeah, me too jon. Looks like there’s three of them now. Oh well, it’s been a laugh anyway.
Feel like I need to write an article how many Dans are there lol
Dan Smith and Daniel Smith are same people or sometimes I’m just Dan
When I send comments off phone it auto corrects for me so I press anyone
Well, that’s cleared that up then😁
Ken I am curious as to exactly WHAT you seem to think IS the cause or “truth” behind Diana’s death?
I would LOVE to hear what or who you feel is responsible, if you care to enlightenj those of us who believe it is EXACTLY as we have all understood, from all official sources.
BTW, although , in general , I am wary of conspiracy stories, I do not insist , not by a long way, that official explanations are always honest or correct.
However, I also think that many folk have a vested interest in obvious conspiracy stories being true, even when no real evidence is produced to back up their version of events.
Such as Trump being “cheated” out of the last USA general election. But also in many other areas of life.
In my experience, most of the time, things ARE exactly as they seem to have been. But not ALWAYS!
Finally, I entirely agree with your final paragraph about Liverpool fans. It is yet more evidence towards my long held conviction that we are ALL hypocrites.
There is a mountain of evidence as to that being true In each one of us and in our familes too. I say that more as a simple observation about human nature, than as any sort of criticism.
I’m totally indifferent to the monarchy, but get fed up with the constant griping of too many people from that city, AND TOO MANY PEOPLE NOT FROM THAT CITY, for that matter. Everyone’s a victim these days. I won’t expand.
With regard to “God Save The King”, an anthem of praise to a single human being has always seemed pathetic and ridiculous to me. If there is to be a national anthem it should be inspiring, about the people, the country and hope for it’s future. If you want a stirring and energetic anthem look no further than the sometimes brutal Marseillaise. A damn good tune too.
Ou est le papier?
Great lyrics
I can sing that, bloody and revolutionary lyrics, lived in the South of France for Five years in a place called Orange, loved every moment and I got to watch Catonna play before he came to England Auxerre and Nimes.
foreverinourshadows, in my opinion it’s the best of all the anthems. It really inspires me when I hear it and I wish it was our national anthem. Mind you our club’s new anthem is bloody beautiful when sung at the Emirates by our fans. “North London Forever” is just gorgeous and very moving to me. I’m a south Londoner but that’s where we started remember.
I bet most Liverpool fans don’t even know who wrote “You’ll Never Walk Alone”. They always crucify that song.
Celtic were the first to sing “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, it’s from Carousel, typical Scousers stealing something that isn’t theirs, yep North London Forever is good, but I prefer” London Calling” by The Clash at The Emirates
And that in a way shows my ignorance. Didn’t realize Celtic used it first. Thought it was Bill Shankley’s idea before anyone else.
My favourite song from that film is “If I Loved you”. Soundtrack written by Rodgers & Hammerstein. Sadly and pathetically, I always cry at the end of that film ! Sad isn’t.
My favourite musical is ‘Half a Sixpence’ with the legendary Tommy Steele, my favourite song is ‘Flash, Bang, Wallop’.
Half a farthing is better than none….
Half a sixpence is better than half a penny, Is better than half a farthing, Is better than none. It’s a token of our eternal Love
Yes, but can YOU sing it and in tune with proper phrasing? That is the question!
I detect a certain insensitivity about you, my man.
Flash Bang Wallop ! I know that tune very well because I used to sing it when I was a very young child. However, it doesn’t get on my playlist these days. Glad it’s so agreeable to you though, and Tommy is amazingly still alive (I think). I’m afraid I’m of the hopeless romantic type. Memories misty water coloured memories and all that.
Yes he is and it’s Sir Tommy, reading his autobiography ‘Bermondsey Boy’, and I can do the song, I watch it about twice a week on youtube with a Stella in my hand
You’re probably not going to believe this, but my parents, sister and I moved from Bermondsey to Croydon (where Jon Fox lived) in 1964.
Bermondsey could sometimes be a bit of a nightmare in those days. I was glad when we left. On this site (JA) strange coincidences keep happening to me, feels like the Twilight Zone at times. First with Marge, then with Jon, now I wonder if you’re going to tell me you were once a resident of SE16 ? A few days after we left Bermondsey there was a burst pipe in the area which may probably have flooded our house. We got out just in time.
EvGunner while you cry at If I loved you”, I sing it, often too, and many other songs from Carousel, South Pacific and many other great musicals of the past. (It is regularly “murdered” by the Kop and other tone deaf non singers).
Plus many other styles of music from opera to karaoke numbers and much else besides.
Their rendition is nothing short of an atrocity, a crucifixion. When they go into a speeded up version, I start crying for all the wrong reasons. Agricultural, appalling, abominal.
Call me a musical snob and perhaps I am, but I depair when crowds are regarded as “singing” any tune at all
I can’t help thinking “well you certainly WILL walk alone, if THAT’S the best you can sing”!
It seems to me that almost every football so called tune is murdered and sung flat, which is bad enough from even one person in a choir, but vastly worse when murdered by thousands, nearly all of whom cannot sing in tune.
Sorry to be perhaps thought unkind but that is being honest, as its how I have always thought about crowds in general.
I freely accept that to non singers its of no matter and there are many far more important things to worry about.
But hey, honesty can never be bad!
When the chorus of “North London Forever” is sung by us at the Emirates, I do feel satisfied that not only is it a lovely melody, but it’s also usually sung well.
Has quite a hymnal feel about it actually, and I can tell you I am not easily pleased by most of the silly songs fans sing. There was a lovely haunting song/chant that Sunderland fans you to do, but haven’t heard it for a long time.
Welsh fans sing English fans chant, I have a bloke behind me at The Emirates and he is toned deaf, one tone for every song, it kills me
Fab part of the world. Lucky you
Dan You speak for me 100%!
So glad you wrote this article as I had it in mind to do a very similar piece. It needed saying and you have said it
I salute you sir!
I did however watch the Coronation and would describe myself as a believer in a Monarchy.
I also respect thr views of those who wish a Republic , but NOT how that Anfield crowd misbehaved so grossly and so viciously. It has also IMO lost Liverpool FC and Liverpool as a city many would be friends
Viciously Jon? Please explain and do you also think the Police behaved “viciously” with those anti royal demonstrators?
A far as the city of Liverpool losing friends, why would you think that?
Would you say that London has now lost friends due to the overzealous police force and it’s actions?
Asimple principle is at stake here Ken. HATE TOWARDS OTHERS, IN WHATEVER SITUATION HUMANS INDULGE THEMSELVES , is always damaging and is wrong. I DO think that many of the police DID behave viciously towqards those demonstrating.
Peaceful demonstations , PROVIDED the demostration does not inconvenience or harm others, who are not directly involved, SHOULD ALWAYS BE ALLOWED IN A DEMOCRATIC ANDS WOULD BE CIVILISED SOCIETY.
I do not take sides when hate is involved. I AM ALWAYS IMPLACEABLE AGAINST HATE, FROM WHOEVER OR WHEREVER IT COMES.
Hope that helps you understand many of my posts throughout our time on JA.
I try, though often fail, to live my life and do my thinking, by using life principles which I hold dearly!
To me, hate IS vicious! Always!
Jon, you d’narf make me laugh. But you are right about the word HATE. It’s a bad habit when people use that term. Did you see my post to you last night about CROYDON ?
EvGunner”d’narf” is a new one to me, BTW! Though I know what you mean of course.
And no, I did not see your Croydon post, so what did it say and what thread was it on?
On how so many people carelessly misuse “hate” instead of saying someone simply does not rate a player, makes me sick at how unthinking SOME folk are. And how little they can see the damage they do by wilfully misusing that ghastly word.
If some folk had any idea HOW ghastly true hate really, is they would think twice before using it ,instead of not thinking at all , as is often the case.
Really though EvGunner,I am barking at the moon by expecting,or even hoping, many football fans to even think, really THINK , at all. Would you not agree!?
The general level of personal bias and lack of fairness in such “one eyed” fans, not only Gooners either but fans in general, is really disappointing. And so many have the sheer effrontery, biased as so many are, to accuse refs of being biased. Always against Arsenal of course!! The hypocrisy of such fans is staggering!
Jon, I give up on you. It was in the Zaha set of posts, which has now completely disappeared.
Coincidentally, I too lived in Croydon district from ’64-’75 with my parents. My younger sister continued to live in Purley and other parts of South Croydon until she died in 2014. We were brought up on the Upper Norwood/Thornton Heath border very near to were Pickles the dog discovered the Jules Rimet trophy at All Saints Church on Beulah Hill. So I know Croydon reasonably well. If you don’t respond to this I’ll assume you haven’t received it and I’ll try again earlier in the day tomorrow. Don’t you get notified of messages to you ?
Frankly, I’d do away with anthems at football matches completely, including internationals. It’s so unnecessary to make teams stand to attention and sing something most of them couldn’t care less about and what is often a hate target for opposing fans. Anthems have no place in sport, even the Olympics. Just hand out the medals.
👍👍👍 The same goes for shaking hands before the game.
All typical FIFA nonsense – why don’t they tackle the REAL problems, such as the racial chants and sleaze inside it’s own organisation?
Jax, Some of the south American players cry and get very emotional. I’ve seen Brazilians, Chileans etc really going for it. Some of our lads look like they don’t even know the lyrics to ours and just mime. They just glaze over. Our lyrics are naff though aren’t they.
I was just saying the melody to “North London Forever” is quite moving to me. Maybe it should be the national anthem, but that wouldn’t be entirely fair to the rest of UK would it. ho hum.
JAX a perfectly understandable and legitimate view to hold. I am tempted to agree too, as I abhor rampant nationalism, which sadly, so often turns hateful towards other nations.
And HATE is always damaging, most often to those who DO the hating, though also to those who are unfairly and foolishly hated.
If I had my own way I would do away altogether with international competitions IN FOOTBALL, for thesimple reason that , by and large,many football fans are not intelligent enough to understand the harm that HATE does.
Though in more civilised sports I SEE, GENERALLY SPEAKING, far more mature and civilised attitudes towards teams from other countries.
Football is, it has to be said, attractive to a greater percentage of unthinking idiots, globally, than are most other sports.
Sigh!
I do not like national anthems at domestic football matches but would not have booed it. The best response is just to carry on singing football songs.
I am getting a bit bored with all these attempts to mark occasions or make a point at football matches. It used to be just a minutes silence for ex players and managers, now everyone seems to get in on it. I am really not keen when all clubs are ordered to mark some occasion. Charles is King, good luck to him bit frankly he has had enough of a day out without all this at games he does not even watch.
The Premier League also loves to make points about LGBT rights or racism then they let the Saudis buy a football club.
Just get on with the football!
Best comment on the tread mate
There is no law against what the Liverpool fans did ,so I dont get the outrage
Freedom of speech and all that .
But then there’s freedom of speech against their freedom of speech
As long as they dont complain next time a tribute to Hillsborough Is booed ?
I have to be a bit different having lived here for over 40 years. The last debate / vote for the monarchy against anti monarchy was 57% in favour of the monarchy and 43% against. This is democracy and all anti monarchists like myself have to accept and move on. It does not make me any less British as I love this country and the city of London in particular as it is home. As for the song it is biased towards London (‘Going underground’) and is the closest thing to an anthem for me. But I agree with other posts stating the disapproval of any national anthems.