Anyone else getting tired of every other football match being overshadowed by fans perceiving there is a conspiracy against them because a decision went against them?
This isn’t exclusive to some Gooners by the way. Every team has a section of their fanbase who think the FA, Match officials and VAR have an agenda.
Which is quite self-involved when you think about it?
Why is your badge any different to your peers, that you think you’re so unique, that those in power have a motive to hurt you?
What makes you so unique?
In reality, they don’t care about you enough to have any kind of grievance.
This weekend Arsenal dropped points in the title race. Zero disgrace, no need to panic, even the most successful sides slip up.
Sometimes you win, lose or draw.
There are days when luck is on your side, there are moments when it’s not your day.
This won’t be popular, but by the letter of the law, Declan Rice’s second yellow card wasn’t outrageous.
Was the ref harsh?
Could he have been lenient?
Of course.
Yet for years I seen bookings constantly for players stopping a quick free kick. I even seen cautions when the taker kicks the ball at his opponent for not getting out of the way quicker.
It’s worth stressing that in the summer all refs were told to get harsher on disciplining players who kick the ball away. In their annual meeting all clubs were informed of this and not for the first time, Mikel Arteta waits till he’s impacted to act like he’s never heard this conversation.
The rule is simple, ‘delaying the restart of play – this includes kicking, or carrying the ball away or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play.’
So, take the emotion out of things for a moment.
Does Declan Rice kick the ball away?
Remove your bias.
Does he take a slight glance to suggest this touch was intentional?
I love Rice. He’s been sensational since moving to the Emirates. Yet reading that protocol, he gave Chris Kavanagh a choice to make when he didn’t have to.
Law 12 on the Football Associations website doesn’t say the ball has to be moved a certain distance to apply.
There is no mention on this only being an offense based on what others do.
Those in charge don’t have a duty to keep everyone on the pitch because it might make fans feel short changed.
They shouldn’t not show a red for the sake of a competitive game.
You might not like the rule but that’s not a conspiracy.
Just because you would rather a policy not be followed doesn’t make you right.
The ref gets paid to follow the procedures written by their employers.
Rice made a mistake and will learn from it and be better for the experience.
I heard classic attempts at deflection which I would expect from children.
Because someone else gets away with something doesn’t mean you get a free pass.
There is a lack of consistency because officiating is poor in the UK.
Sometimes that goes in our favour, sometimes it doesn’t.
For me it sums up a generation who when they don’t get their own way demand answers, feel they are owed an explanation, need someone to blame.
In football, sometimes you don’t win. You don’t have a divine right for that to happen, you’re not entitled, you’re not a victim.
The Gunners have gone 21 years without a title not because of an agenda or conspiracy.
Whisper it quietly …. we just were not good enough. Sometimes that happens.
We won’t be Champions this season because Man City are better than us – not because there is a conspiracy.
It’s called Sport!
Dan
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Imo i don’t think a vast majority believe there is a conspiracy against us.
By the letter of the law he needed to go so there is no disputing that
What i would say a vast majority would say is that consistency is what needs to be applied.
Brighton player kicks the the ball away 30 yards needs to be booked. He slowed the play down by not allowing us to take a quick free kick.
If you don’t book him then you can’t book DR.
What DR and the team needs to look at is f you have already been booked for a reckless foul which in a million years don’t go for and stay on your feet then the 2nd booking is meaningless and he stays on the pitch and we have 11 players and probably take the 3 points.
Imo 1 point gained rather then 3 points dropped due to
circumstances and we move on
Well done to the 10 and subs that
dug in and almost snatched all 3
Onwards and upwards
This is exactly the kind of; ‘he did it, why can’t I!’ that children moan about. Rice invited the call. He forced the referee to make a choice. All he had to do was keep walking, facing away from Veltman, and he would have stayed on the pitch.
The reality is, he glanced, checked the see where the ball was, and nudged it away, stopping the free kick. He did it right in front of the referee, when the official’s attention was on him and Veltman because of the physical nature of the original challenge. It was a deliberate act on rice’s to prevent Brighton’s competitive advantage. That’s a booking. Moaning about someone else getting away with it does not change the reality – it was a booking and the foul was called and Rice was sent off. Declan Rice took a calculated gamble and lost.
‘We want consistency’ is the lament of the professional victim. The truth is, ‘we want the calls to go our way in every instance’ is what those moaners really want. And Arsenal have gotten immense latitude in questioning the officials. Other managers, usually from smaller clubs, have been fined, sent off, and given bans for the kind of attacks on referee decisions Mikel Arteta has made his stock in trade. And gotten away with those shocking attacks, more times than not. If Mikel Arteta was shocked by the decision, he must not know the rules very well, which is rather shocking itself.
Similarly claims that if only Rice stayed on, Arsenal would have won are as untrue as claims that Rice should not have been sent off. No one knows what would have happened if Rice stayed on. That’s why games are played; so we can see what happens. Otherwise, we could have a computer run simulations of the entire schedule, determine the winner based on probability, and award the trophy for league champion all in an afternoon. Not much fun in that.
Arsenal had a couple of really nice chances after the sending off, true. But so did Brighton. If not for Raya’s heroics, Arsenal would have lost.
Such a lengthy empty post.
Gosh…you didnt see the incident and you carry on like a whinger. Most dont think there is a conspiracy….sorry DK
.. you are wtong there. But certain refs appear to have an agenda. They cant help it, when its a simple talking to in this case, if its a team they have a bias against
AND again, Rice had his back turned and was walking away. That villager jumped up and prodded the ball forward and swung at it….2 wrongs dont make a right but common sense AND professionaliam should have applied. Because play had not restarted…moving ball…. and the action was instigated by the supposed victim…a talking to but hey its kavanaugh
We lost 2 points because of Saka. Let me explain.
Rice should have been mindful and not touched the ball. But he did. I assume that to avoid time wasting and stopping teams to start taking free kicks quickly this rule has been introduced. That the sprit of the law.
Rice, immediately after the whistle did not display any intention to stop quick free-kick. He was walking away from football and in fact ball was behind him, out of his site , he unaware and moving away from ball. In sprit he did not display any intention of doing wrong what law is trying to prevent from happening. Until, what happened afterwards in my view was nothing but he was baited and he fell for it. He was stupid to fall for it. Brighton player was not attempting a pass that would have put Arsenal defence under pressure and deep in his own half its better to have own players in good safe positions before stating play. But he was smart and did what I believe is dark arts of the game. Letter of law…. Red for Rice. Rightly.
Later when save from Havertz (what a chance he had) shot rebounded to Saka and he tried to take a shot. Just before that he was clipped on heels inside the penalty area. It was soft one. In the sprit of game he stayed on his feet. He should have gone down. Why should our players play game in honest sprit? Let the “letter of law “take the decision on penalty just as Brighton player “used” it to their advantage by architecting a situation which wasn’t. In fact we should not ask any of our players not to dive in penalty area when touched by other team players. We should also hire a specialist who can teach and strategise proactively how can we use law to our advantage to gain penalties and red cards for opponents. Why not? Not is the sprit of the game?
Everyone said right decision as per letter of law. No one said right decision in the sprit of the game. If we are disregarding sprit of game in favour of letter of law then let’s go for it in totality and we should ask Saka why he did not go down and win penalty ?
Observation: Arsenal players are really naive to pick few very strange red cards in recent seasons. Martinelli – in same passage of play for 2 different challenges within 60 seconds. When play holds, referee shows 2 yellow together and he goes off with red. Tomiyasu 2nd yellow for taking more time for throw-in. Red card. Such stupid lack of awareness from Arsenal players! Never seen other teams getting such soft red cards. I can bet Arsenal will be 1st team where GK will be shown 2nd yellow for time wasting and sent off.
100% right. Conspiracy theories abounding about why you can’t win the title when the season has barely started is a slippery slope to a very convenient get out, 35 games later.
For goodness’ sake we need to move on from Brighton, from Rice’s red card, and from daft conspiracy theories now.
There is and has been a conspiracy against Arsenal. No one is tapking about the clear handball that should have been a penalty. If an Arsenal player had handled that ball, a penalty w0uld uave been givrn against us.
Can I ask though what in your opinion is the conspiracy exactly
Are you saying that referees are not human beings?
Why does a referee blow his whistle spontaneously against an Arsenal player and not the same against a Brighton player for the same offense?
There’s another Arsenal blog dedicated to this type of BS
Really?The no of points Arsenal have lost through ref blunders could have been significant in Arsenal winning the epl.
As for Rice rc,it could be a deliberate ploy to weaken the gunners
against Spurs and MC .
You never know.
Nope
Because equally there are moments we benefitted from bad decisions and City didn’t
Veltman could have taken the free kick while Rice was walking away. Instead he kicked the ball against Rice’s heel, whereupon Rice gently nudged it away. There was no intent to delay the kick. Veltman then attempted to take the free kick on a moving ball and instead kicked Rice to the ground. How come Veltman was not penalised for dangerous play? There were also several other incidents in the match. Why was Dunk not penalised for handling in the penalty box? Why was the Brighton defender not penalised for following through on Odergaard? Why was Pedro not given a yellow card for kicking the ball away? Why was no yellow card shown when Saka was pulled back? The referee, Chris Kavanagh, was incompetent and biased.
I can agree about the ref being incompetent in that match. As for bias, I would have to see a repeating pattern of behavior consistently against us before I could agree.
Is he just against Arsenal, or is he actively helping another club? That would be the question
👍That’s the whole thing here and I could have added to your list. Don’t preach about select application of certain laws of the game against Rice when the laws aren’t even close to being applied equally to both sides.
The thing is these are not theories. But conspiracies. The refs favour some teams. There is no consistency at all. The margins are little. Many officiating errors.
That was not a second yellow at all.
Interesting. So, you think some refs are conspiring – and a “conspiracy” requires two people or more – against Arsenal. In other words, two or more refs are working together informally or formally (?) with the intention of preventing Arsenal from winning the EPL title. Are they doing so to ensure another, specific, club wins the title instead, or just that Arsenal doesn’t? And how long has this conspiracy being going on for?
It was a proper piece of shithousery by Veltman. Poor refereeing to be certain, that guy is a disgrace, but if Ben White had pulled that off we’d all be in heaven.
That said, there’s karma coming for Fabian Hurzeler. It will be sweet.
Other clubs fans complainig against refs has nothing to do with what we always suffered against English referees. Even Man utd fans under Ferguson had the audacity to complain about refs.
It’s not a conspiracy at all it’s very true that there is bias against Arsenal from the refs. I have seen this countless times in 26 years of following this club.
Few biased decisions that goes for us does not erase hundreds more that goes against us.
The second yellow card against Rice is the softest yellow I have ever seen in my life. It’s like the referee was waiting for any reason to send one of our players off.
If the ref had let it go not a single soul in the world would have thought about it. It was that minor.
Some say Brighton players did the same thing and was not booked. Can you answer why?
Arsenal players should know the referees have a mark on us and should avoid to the best of their abilities to give them any single reason however small.
And Arteta should stop complaining about referees otherwise they are going to add revenge to their already obvious bias. Benitez did the same thing, what happened?
Can I ask mate what is the bias ?
What’s there agenda ?
Did he apply the rules to Brighton as strictly as he did to us?
No he didn’t mate but is that poor officiating and inconsistency or an agenda against Arsenal ?
Dan, how about answering the question asked by HH before asking him a question.
I did in article
Officiating is poor in UK
Fact is we also benefit form that so it can’t be an conspiracy
So you can repeat that answer in a post here then, instead of ignoring the question.
So you can repeat that answer in a post here then, instead of ignoring the question.
But I also see inconsistency as Brighton player did the same and nothing happened
I think you make an important distinction between bias and conspiracy thinking here, tbh. I hate these modern terms, but it does make a difference if it’s a conscious or unconscious bias imo. I’m quite sure referees do have biases, but if they’re aware, I expect most try to control them, which could also lead to inconsistent results.
I did feel there was a bias towards utd under Ferguson, and I think he did too because he intentionally tried to influence them for years – wouldn’t make sense to keep doing it if he wasn’t seeing results. I see far less evidence of a bias against arsenal, especially recently, though. It’s extremely difficult to quantity largely because I think a lot of people ignore the things that go in our favour – we’re almost wired to pick up on the negatives more than the positives (hence the phrase about you’ll tell 5 people about a good experience and 10 about a bad one, or whatever). Just my opinion.
I’ve no problem with people complaining about inconsistencies – refs clearly are inconsistent – it’s the victim hood and conspiracy thinking that bothers me
Errrr……150 charges against a certain team over 5 years now….the silence by the FA has been defeaning. Everton and Forest had the book thrown at them immediately. Sadly their owners dont reside in an gas rich zone
Because everton and forest said they were guilty
Dan, as far as I am concerned, the discussion about the Rice sending off, was the incompetent refereeing and following the rule book… that’s how football, as a sport, should be discussed and played.
Let’s discuss then :
Is it the letter of the law that a free kick must be taken once the ball has stopped moving?
Is it the letter of the law that the ball must be placed where the offence took place?
Is it the letter of the law that an opposing player has to be ten yards away from the free kick?
Did the referee follow those three rules?
If he had, would Rice had been put in the position he was?
After watching the individual concerned refereeing the Brighton game, I can only say that, if it wasn’t a deliberate attempt to influence the game by his decisions against our club, then it was the most incompetent one way display of a so called professional referee I have seen for a long long time.
There were so many errors and one sided calls, it beggars belief that Kavanagh will be allowed to referee again at such a high level.
That’s why fans get so annoyed as it never seems to be addressed and we are left to make our own conclusions.
Isn’t it time that the PGMOL stopped policing itself, allowed referees to discuss why they made the decisions they have?
If that happened, then there would be a better understanding and relationship between referees and fans.
Correct.
👍👍
Just listening to Radio right now, an analyst who is not an Arsenal fan saying a lot of bias decisions went against Arsenal even before the red card. There is no conspiracy theory from her analysis, to her the Ref. was either bais or incompetent on the day.
Ken
I have always felt referees should also be interviewed after matches.
Managers and players face the media with emotions running high, and are expected to explain why they won or lost.
Why should refs be exempt?
Best way to correct poor and inconsistent refs in put them in the spotlight with a mic to answer questions.
Watch how fast the game improves when they are answerable for their actions. After all they are professionals too.
Dan – your unbiased, unemotional, all-knowing defender of justice in football. Next.
Thanks lol
We all know that professionalism is part of the premier game,wether it’s blocking from set pieces,or standing over the ball to prevent free kicks taken quickly.But a certain amount of discipline needs to be present more in our players minds.If you are already on a yellow for a late challenge,then surely your self discipline should kick in and stop you tempting the already dubious ref into making an example of you .If Declan walks away from the ball we collect 3 points,it’s that simple.
Gosh…you villagers
He had his back turned and was walking away didnt attempt to hold up play till something hits him.
We have some amazing experts here at JA and they know everything, even before it happens. Is it amazing skills or lack of self insight?
So easy to turn that around.
I think you should try, mate. What’s the general opinion among real experts after the Rice incidents?
Rice shouldn’t have been in contact with the ball, but a yellow card for this incident is pathetic. It is acceptable if it’s a consistent reaction, which it’s not.
Who are the real experts? As far as I can tell, some say it was correct, some don’t. You’ll argue from authority when it suits you, but if all the experts agreed with the pgmol, you’d ignore them.
And by turn it around I was referring to the self insight comment – so easy for someone to say the same about an arsenal fan being outraged about something that went against arsenal.
Sorry, but this is not a specific Arsenal problem, it’s about inconsistent practice among referees and the subjective understanding of the rules, which isn’t good enough. You support incompetence and I don’t.
The PGMOL should admonish every referee who failed to similarly punish the same offence this season, starting with Kavanagh.
This was extremely cathartic. Made the argument far better than I’ve been able to over the past couple of days – unfortunately it’s easy to get bogged down in the details. Everyone tries to focus on everything except what rice did. It wasn’t the worst thing in the world, but it was a cardable offence and he should have known better – mistakes happen but thankfully it was completely atypical behaviour for him and I doubt it will happen again in the near future.
Funnily enough Davi, you’ve concentrated on what you say Rice did wrong, but not the defender or referee.
It’s the details that need to be examined.
The details are being used to cloud the issue – you can say the ref got this or that wrong, and you can say veltman was trying to goad rice or whatever, but rice put himself in the position to receive a second yellow. If you think rice did nothing at all wrong, which is to say, he did nothing at all, you’re completely lost.
If there was a bait being dangled in front of him, he went for it. I’m still not convinced that’s what happened, but it is part of the game, and our players do it too. Rice understands that.
Maybe not completely lost – just responded to your other point below where I think I see where you’re coming from. I still disagree, but your arguments make more sense to me from that perspective – I’d never thought for as second people believed the first touch of the ball by veltman was actually his attempt to take the freekick.
The fact is that there have been a lot of inconsistency in d game which could go either way & leaves fans 2 make their own judgements. Both refs & fans ve there own part…
100% the conspiracy talk is utter nonsense
100% it is done, finished, over and not changing
100% get over it and get on with it
100% utterly bored of JA invaded by detached from reality non-thinking NPC’s
If you love your voice that much why don’t you get a giant mirror and have an insightful conversation with your reflection?
HH
a bit harsh
You.might not agree as I don’t always agree with you or you.me but we don’t have to lower our selves to being like a spud supporter
No criticism of Arsenal1886 then AB?
I am afraid this piece is misrepresenting the concerns of most well meaning fans.
The main issue at stake is not a conspiracy. The concerns are about consistency, competence and appropriate refereeing of the game.
Unfortunately, once again, this author focuses on a minority view which then serves as a distraction from the main issues at stake.
Mate I will stress if it helps this is not a majority of fans but without question I have heard many since the weekend use words like conspiracy and agenda
No being biased, I just expect consistency in implementing the laws of the game from so called professional referees.
Which Mr Kavanagh most certainly didn’t do HD.
I find it hard to understand why we all cannot go back and judge the incident from the second he awarded, quite correctly, a foul against Rice.
Step by step.
Rice doesn’t argue, but starts to walk away – the defender, still on the floor, swipes at the moving ball and hits Rice as he walks away – this was not a legitimate free kick as it was taken in the wrong place and the ball was moving – Rice taps the ball away – the defender jumps into Rice, fouling him – the referee brandishes a yellow card at Rice and sends him off.
That’s how I see it and there were three laws of the game that the referee ignored.
1. The defender hits a moving ball.
2. The defender didn’t spot the ball.
3. The referee didn’t caution the defender for a dangerous tackle.
He then penalised Rice for tapping the ball away.
Now, there are some of us unenlightened fans, who question why Mr Kavanagh would make three such basic mistakes, considering he is a professional referee who has been in the PL for over four years.
One doesn’t have to be an expert to know these basic rules of the game, but Mr Kavanagh is supposed to be and gets paid handsomely for that assumption.
So what, then, must we assume? They were just three mistakes?
But there were so many other decisions (or non decisions) that he made / missed that it becomes impossible to believe that he was just having a “bad day” – the problem is, we’ll never know, because the PGMOL has closed ranks yet again and whitewashed the whole incident by saying Mr Kavanagh was correct, because Rice delayed the free kick by kicking the ball away.
Conspiracy? Not against individual clubs, but a conspiracy to defend their own.
That’s why they answer to no one and police their own members.
Does that answer your question Dan?
I concur with you Ken. It’s no wonder people moan about refs when they’re so inconsistent. The fans singing 🎵 You’re not fit to referee🎵 is so tame to what was sung in the 70’s and 80’s 😂
Ur analysis is top notch by hitting the nail on the head. Three legitimate basic rules he (ref) ignored because he was so concerned about depreciating our numbers. It was so bad and obvious that opposing fans had to agree about the sending off as very harsh. Anyways, I hope DR or any other Arsenal players henceforth doesn’t fall prey to such biasedness
SPOT ON Ken
Although i am extremely perplexed how some of the arteta fanboys here are supporting the imcompetancy of the ref. That villahers decision may cost your messiah the title . WE cannot afford to drop simple points like last season where ultimately only 2 pts cost us.
10 men and we had 2 golden opportunities late…11 men? Just saying…
And it couldn’t have been better analyzed!
Simply brilliant! Thanks Ken!
Unfortunately, the societal truth is that when professionals are unable to provide unbiased explanations and appropriate forensics, it creates opportunities for conspiracy theories…
It is great to see that you are still offering in-depth and insightful analysis… It is also fantastic to be back after a bizarre inability for me to get automatic justarsenal emails and submit comments…
Cheers!
Nice to see you back Fire – hope to read more from you in the future.
“Rice doesn’t argue, but starts to walk away – the defender, still on the floor, swipes at the moving ball and hits Rice as he walks away – this was not a legitimate free kick as it was taken in the wrong place and the ball was moving – Rice taps the ball away – the defender jumps into Rice, fouling him – the referee brandishes a yellow card at Rice and sends him off.”
I think I understand better your view here. The “swipe” at the ball as veltman stumbled up was not the attempt to take the freekick – I never thought it was, I thought that was obvious. The swing veltman took towards the ball as rice toe poked it away was the attempt the take the freekick. Maybe this explains some of the confusion?
I don’t believe rice thought the freekick had been taken (I don’t think he mentioned that in his comments?) but if it was, maybe that could have been explained (if it wasn’t), maybe that’s where the ref could have applied leniency if he’d believed it was a simple mistake?
Some common ground at last then Davi 👍
👍
Ken
A solution is to interview refs after the match like players and managers. Have them explain key decisions like players and managers are expected to do.
They are all professionals right? If ref calls the game down the middle there should be no concerns. VAR is also supposed to help ref get the call correct.
Unfortunately, PGMOL has a monopoly on officiating, and will not concede or change anytime soon.
PL best league in football, but the officials rank among the lowest, sad really
I agree 100% with you Durand.
The PL referees are being paid three times the average of a working class individual here in the UK and they need to be open to questioning just, as you say, players and managers are held accountable.
I read that the best referee in the world, Oierkuigu Collins, has criticised Mr Kavanagh and yet we still have no idea or clue as to why he missed so much in one game.
As I said, the PGMOL is a danger to itself, by not being accountable and, for the life of me, just cannot understand why they are so reluctant to answer questions – if they are right in their decisions, then they should be able to explain why!!
For me, consistency is the issue, not conspiracy. Remember van Persie receiving a second yellow for taking a shot at goal no more than a second after the whistle went at Barcelona for off-side in 2011? Letter of the law, maybe, but its spirit?
Reading Law 13 in its entirety only confuses the issue. When it says: “If a player, while correctly taking a free kick, deliberately kicks the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue,” does that mean that Rice, who had his back to play as he walked upfield, had a right to kick the ball out of play if he felt the free-kick had been taken?
And then there is this:
“If, when a free kick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play.”
Implicit in this is that as Rice had not seen Veltman kick the ball, only felt its impact, he was entitled to assume the free-kick had been taken and, as it was kicked at him, that he had the right to play the ball. It is more of a stretch to say he was trying to delay the restart of play as the ball was moving forward.
It shows how much of a grey area this was: surely a card should be the outcome of something clear-cut, like his first-half foul. Punishing him for the second time on Saturday was like taking action against someone doing 30.5mph in a 30mph zone.
It is not so much that common sense should have applied but that mitigating factors should have been taken into account. Was justice served? Hardly. Veltman saw an opportunity and took it.
For me, consistency is the issue, not conspiracy. Remember van Persie receiving a second yellow for taking a shot at goal no more than a second after the whistle went at Barcelona for off-side in 2011? Letter of the law, maybe, but its spirit?
Reading Law 13 in its entirety confuses the issue. When it says: “If a player, while correctly taking a free kick, deliberately kicks the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue,” does that mean that Rice, who had his back to play as he walked upfield, had a right to kick the ball out of play if he felt the free-kick had been taken?
And then there is this:
“If, when a free kick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play.”
Implicit in this is that as Rice had not seen Veltman kick the ball, only felt its impact, he was entitled to assume the free-kick had been taken and, as it was kicked at him, that he had the right to play the ball. It is more of a stretch to say he was trying to delay the restart of play as the ball was moving forward.
It shows how much of a grey area this was: surely a card should be the outcome of something clear-cut, like his first-half foul. Punishing him for the second time on Saturday was like taking action against someone doing 30.5mph in a 30mph zone.
It is not so much that common sense should have applied but that mitigating factors should have been taken into account. Was justice served? Hardly. Veltman saw an opportunity and took it.
Pat, why do comments keep appearing in the “latest comment” section, but fail to appear in the comments part of the article itself?
Hi ken1945, not a complaint for Pat of course, but I often have to click the “reload the current page” icon on my desktop to see my posted comments/replies.
I’ve noticed that Ken. I’ve been trying to reply to a post, but the post isn’t appearing in the comment section.
Why should anybody whisper it quietly that we were not good enough?
Doesnt help when you have to play against an xtra man for 50 mins then 2 xtra for yhe rest.
AND not good enough???? We were 1 nil up and Brighton didnt have a shot on target till the sending off.
Polski
Dan who wrote the article used that sentence. I just wondered what he meant by that. Another example of Dan slipping a negative into an article which I can’t see has anything to do with the Rice second yellow card
It’s simple
It’s easier to find excuses than admit our own failures
And also reword it
You finding it negative doesn’t mean it’s negative
When weren’t we good enough Dan?
Before, during or after the sending off?
What do you mean by excuses or admitting our own failures?
If by mentioning Rice then that is his failure
Mentioning the ref for inconsistency is his failure.
I was referring to 21 years without a title
I heard some say that there is a conspiracy to help City
In the two title races I saw we were good but just not enough to finish above City
These curupt referees do not conspires against us in my opinion, they are like some criminals sleeper cells that acts on their own when the opportunities arise.
From the result point of view, nothing can be done now. That doesn’t mean we gloss over the issue and make it sound rational.
Just watched a pitiful ref watch, where I heard some unbelievable rubbish from the PGMOL. On one hand he was adamant that it was a straight yellow offence in Rice case, and when pointed out a similar double yellow scenario, he shamelessly said sometimes referee give a final warning to a yellow carded player that he will be carded after a certain number of fouls so be cautious. So ultimately, when a decision is a discretion, and not always by the rulebook, it’s very fair to question the subjective biases of the referees because they don’t always stick to the rulebook. That’s what breeds conspiracies and I don’t think that’s wrong. If every decision made is by the rulebook, there is no place for a conspiracy, but is that the case?
The position of refree was too far from the place of incidence to make a correct decision. The ball was also on the other side not properly visible for the referee. Red Card was therefore not an accident nor correctly given. It was intentional 😪😪
I agree completely. There’s no conspiracy
Just a very poor decision by Referee
Declan should never have been sent off
I wonder if Rice had “kicked” the ball back to where the original foul was given, would he would of still got a yellow card, the Brighton player threw the ball yards from where the free kick was given .
The usual misunderstanding from this author. I suspect deliberately to whip up a storm of replies by making the topic unnecessarily contentious.
TL;DR – the headline shows a complete misunderstanding of what other people are saying, so let’s just focus on that.
A “conspiracy” involves a number of people colluding and working together to achieve some (usually nefarious) outcome. Nobody is suggesting that – even if some folks use cliched terms like “conspiracy theory” far too loosely.
The suggestion is that there is bias, but it’s more along the lines of individual referees, as human beings, having their own preferences and beliefs. That is not a “conspiracy” because it works at the level of the individual, not a group acting together to enact some underhanded plan.
So… a ref who hails from Salford (a district of Manchester, for those who don’t know) is likely to have a soft spot for one or more Manchester clubs. So if such a person is appointed to referee a match involving Arsenal and Man Utd – and there are questionable decisions – is it any surprise that people wonder if the ref is in any way swayed by personal preferences, consciously or unconsciously?
You have to wonder how PGMOL allow such things to happen.
Bottom line – no one is saying the bad decisions are a conspiracy. One thing we should all be able to agree on is that when a title race is tight, as it was last season, those bad decisions may well be changing the outcome in terms of who wins what.
If all the decisions could be made to be “correct” (or “the best they could possibly be”) last season, would Arsenal be champions? I don’t know. Nor does anyone else. But everyone will have an opinion – and they’re entitled to it.
People have said the bad decisions are a conspiracy though
Glad you agree this is nonsense
As I said, they are simply misusing (or misunderstanding) a cliched phrase.
As I also said, I suspect you know this and have used it to manufacture a contentious article out of nothing.
If you’d written a piece about the perception of *bias* instead of wittering on about “conspiracies” it would’ve been received differently.
I’m happy how it’s been received mate lol
We are only 3 games into new season and the refs are already conspiring against us. Rice has already said he has no complaints but some are still screaming about biased refereeing etc. He should not have given the ref any opportunity already being on a yellow. Look on the bright side we got a point.
But by that logic that are also conspiring against Newcastle and Cherries?
Folks, please stop using the word “conspiring” – refs are not (for example) getting together in the pub and plotting to work together to shaft Arsenal – that would be a conspiracy.
If you believe that some of them are being biased as individuals, that’s not the same thing. Acting alone is not a conspiracy – even if other people are doing the same thing.
Only when people actively decide to work together would they be “conspiring”.
The whole article and dozens of comments are based on a simple misunderstanding of the word. 💤💤💤😖
Agree, it would be very very difficult to believe refs are working with each other in any kind of conscious conspiracy either for or against Arsenal; however, given the millions at stake every gameday in world football (and Arsenal are one of the big players), it’s almost as difficult to believe there aren’t at least isolated incidents of some shall we say dark arts between refs and certain parties having very much to lose or gain.
Mate if I hear the word that’s what I will report
I have heard conspiracy, agenda and being against Arsenal so I think some do believe it